With over 15 years leading communications and PR strategy for global brands like Amazon, Meta, and Ryder, Nikkia has worked at the sharp end of branding. Where positioning meets public perception. Where reputation is built or quietly eroded. And where strategy either earns attention or disappears.

We dig into why strong internal alignment doesn’t guarantee external belief. Why brand decks don’t build reputation. And why visibility, credibility, and public proof matter just as much as positioning and design.

This conversation explores:

• Why great brand strategy often fails to land externally
• The difference between internal clarity and public trust
• What “public proof” actually looks like for brands
• How PR shapes reputation in a fragmented media and social landscape
• Why thought leadership often falls flat and how to do it properly
• When PR should influence brand strategy, not react to it
• How designers, strategists, and founders can think more realistically about visibility and traction

If you’ve ever wondered why some brands feel real while others just sound good on paper, this episode is for you.

Brand strategy isn’t what you claim.

It’s what shows up when the world looks back.

Listen Here

Love the show? Please review us on Apple.

Play Now

Watch on YouTube

Learn Brand Strategy

Brand Master Secrets helps you become a brand strategist and earn specialist fees. And in my opinion, this is the most comprehensive brand strategy course on the market.

The course gave me all the techniques and processes and more importantly… all the systems and tools I needed to build brand strategies for my clients.

This is the consolidated “fast-track” version to becoming a brand strategist.

I wholeheartedly endorse this course for any designer who wants to become a brand strategist and earn specialist fees.

Check out the 15-minute video about the course, which lays out exactly what you get in the Brand Master Secrets.

Transcript

The reason why PR is often the first thing to go when you think about budget cuts is because they can’t map it to true ROI. I think in the future, I would imagine that AI is really going to help really upend that and really make PR more sticky.

Hello, and welcome to JUST Branding. The only podcast dedicated to helping designers and entrepreneurs grow brands. Here are your hosts, Jacob Cass and Matt Davies.

Hello and welcome to JUST Branding. Today, we’re joined by Nikkia Adolphe, Chief Innovation Officer at BrandSavior. Nikkia sits at the pointy end of brand strategy, where positioning meets reality and where ideas earn attention or disappear quietly. With over 15 years leading communications and PR strategy for global brands like Amazon and Meta, you may have heard them, she’s helped companies turn internal brand thinking into external proof. Not just what brands say about themselves, but what gets seen, shared and trusted in public. In this episode, we’re going to dig into that part of branding, that doesn’t always get the airtime it deserves. The role of PR in making brand strategy actually stick. We’ll learn why great strategy without visibility falls flat, and why reputation is built in public and not in decks. If you’ve ever wondered why some brands feel real, while others sound just good on paper, this conversation is for you. So, Nikkia, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me. That was one hell of an intract. I feel so special. Thank you. I’m so excited to be here with you guys.

You are special. And this is our first episode on PR. So, we’re going for a treat. But we do like to start off with definitions, just because everyone comes from a different background, different experience. We’d love to get aligned on language. And when you say brand, what does that actually mean to you in practice? And then we can hop into PR.

Yeah, I mean, well, brand really sits at the intersection of identity and narrative, right? Like knowing exactly what your brand is, your DNA, what you stand for. That’s what brand is, right? And then when you think about sort of the comms, the communications piece, that touches a lot of different functions, including PR. So there’s a big misconception that sort of PR kind of lives on its own or communication is here, but comms actually serves as that full function. Then you have PR, you have thought leadership, you have reputation, you have crisis comms. And so there’s a lot of different facets of that. And when you break down sort of communications, it’s really thinking about sort of that storytelling element. So while you have that brand as your DNA and identity, the communication really serves with how you really communicate that storytelling value to your audience. And so that’s sort of the most simplistic way in describing it. But I’m such a big believer in nothing operates in silos. And so often you’ll notice that a lot of marketing and communications functions operate in silos. And so we’re always sort of a big advocate in making sure that marketing is talking to comms, comms is talking to sales. The storytelling piece and that narrative piece is pulling through consistently across those different business functions. And so it’s important that you’re always sounding one band, one sound. And all of those different arenas really operate in that sense where, again, that brand is sort of that identity, that DNA, who you are, what you stand for. But the comms function is really about sort of like how that storytelling and what you really want your audience to know.

Thank you. And when you talk about PR, like how do you define it beyond like press releases or media hits?

Yes. Well, I mean, in, let’s say in sort of the marketing funnel, right? Like you have sort of the top where there is that brand awareness. And that’s where comms and PR really sits, right? There’s a means to converting, you know, your customer down that funnel, right? So of course, you’re going further down that funnel. You have sort of the digital marketing aspects. You have, you know, those where you’re trying to really convert that customer and meet them along that journey. And so by definition, I would say sort of that PR and comms piece always sits at sort of that top of the funnel where brand awareness is so important. And oftentimes than not, you know, PR isn’t really shown as sort of bringing in true ROI, which is unfortunate, but it’s sort of, you know, something that has lived on across organizations. I’ve been in sort of the space for 20 years. I’m aging myself now, but that’s one of the things that I have always seen since being a part and entering in the industry. Sort of that PR and comms function, you know, does operate as sort of that brand awareness, but it’s so important to make sure that it’s a continuum and a conversation of storytelling to meet that, to bring that customer down the funnel. So again, going back to like having that holistic, like all of these sort of departments talking to one another is so essential and to really keep that engine going.

It’s like a bit of an investment in the future of the of the brand’s reputation, right? So because as you say, absolutely. From what you’ve said, it’s it’s not something that you would convert someone straight into a sale off the back of reading an article or something out there. It’s more top of the funnel awareness, storytelling, that side of things.

Exactly. And that’s again, that top of the funnel is where, you know, you’re really getting that sort of initial interest from that potential customer to then think about other areas where you can meet them further down the funnel. So it’s all there’s all of the art and science to it, I like to think, and really building that sort of reputation again at that top of the funnel.

Where do you see them most overlap, like brand and PR? And where do you see them kind of like drift apart?

Well, I mean, I think, you know, when I think about sort of like just the places that I’ve been, I mean, I’ve been in rooms with large organizations, like you mentioned, where the strategy is incredibly sharp. I’ve worked closely with both founders and nonprofit leaders. And I think no matter what it is, I think I noticed the same thing, like a lot of brands actually know who they are, but the outside world doesn’t. And so I think that’s where sort of the brand strategy has to connect with the comms piece. And I think one of the things that we think about when you talk about brand strategy is, I think it’s important to name that it’s not just about defining who you are today, what that messaging and positioning is, but where do you want to be as a brand five years from now? And that’s where sort of the PR and comms functions comes in, right? At BrandSaver, which I manage, I’m a founding partner there, our brand messaging workshops are very intentional because we really liked for our clients and the teams that we serve to kind of slow down and really get aligned on what that looks like. And you’re probably familiar with sort of a swab analysis, but we like to call, we do what we call a SOAR analysis. It’s very much more forward-looking. And again, going back to, okay, what you are today as a brand is great, but where do you want to be? That’s sort of the storytelling piece. And so that SOAR stands for what your current strengths are. Where are some of the future opportunities? Where do you aspire to be? What are those results? And those conversations really help leaders articulate what they’re becoming, not just who they’ve been, right? And I think it’s so important, especially in a world of like just misinformation, but also a lot of noise, really being able to kind of pin down and understand where you are aspiring to be. You may have a team that’s really strong operationally, right? But the opportunity is for them to show up as a thought leader in their space. So are there white spaces for us to position that client on global stages, or even stages that have more of a trade focus? And so that’s where sort of the aspiration to kind of really influence, you know, maybe global conversations, that’s where sort of that PR and COMS really acts as a conduit to that brand strategy and moving it forward.

I definitely see that a lot of brands, a lot of business leaders, they tend to focus on the short term, right? On very easy ROI, you know, in terms of like leads, sales, et cetera. And that’s sadly, I think, often what they are judged on, right? Which is fair enough, right? You know, businesses have got to make money, they’ve got to sell things. But what you’re talking about there is having a view beyond this quarter, beyond this financial year, five years time, at a high level narrative, relevance of the brand, its place in the marketplace, defense against competition, all that good stuff. That is big strategic thinking. And then you can do your job brilliantly. I was going to ask a bit of a curveball question, if I may, because this is my role. This just caused absolute havoc. The question I had was, what sort of metrics would you advise an average company thinking about PR? What should they be thinking about in terms of measurability? Because it won’t be leads, it won’t be sales revenue for this quarter, but what might it look like?

Yeah, that’s a great question, Matt, because I think for quite some time, the PR and comms industry kind of relied on vanity metrics. You think about clicks or even impressions of, let’s say, a media outlet that they were featured in. But as technology has advanced, as things have really accelerated, I think there is a lot of nuances when you think about how you integrate across those other marketing functions. A good example of that is when you actually get media coverage for, let’s say, a trade outlet. Is there a way for you to include back links within that particular coverage, so that way you’re able to track again? That then really shows and serves, like, okay, if you have a particular audience that you’re looking at, that you’re serving, that clicks on that, then you can automatically see from your website analytics where that came from. That’s a clear indication of ROI. Another sort of great metric to look at is sort of share of voice, right? Like, again, going back to the holistic bigger picture, this is long term, not short term. Who are you sort of looking at in terms of your competitor set in the industry, and how are they showing up on different topics and themes that they care about as well as you? So there’s different metrics and tools that you utilize to see how you’re mapping with your share of voice, but I think it really makes a big difference in understanding how the market is responding and how you’re really showing up in sort of those different conversations, especially the ones that you care about most in reaching your customer. And so I would say those are two key ones. Sort of that backlink, I think, I mean, it’s been around for quite some time, but then you also think about generative AI now, right? Like that’s becoming a big thing where it also is correlated with the metrics of PR and comms and how you’re showing up as well from a storytelling standpoint, because AI is pulling directly from those searches and those searches are those news aggregates, right? So these are all different components that I think really help to kind of build more of that, that sort of ROI as it relates to the importance of PR and comms. So you think about it as a business function in your organization.

I think that’s so interesting. I think what you’ve just pointed out there around the AI is an interesting kind of thought just to pin for folks, because like what I’m observing, I was always a little bit, and I’ve had quite a bit of history with SEO and working with SEO agencies. I never really did it myself. I ran a business for many years and I don’t really do it in my consultancy, but we sure hire and partner with digital marketers. And they’re always very much on the SEO. And I always felt, and Jacob, I know you’re a big fan of it, or you were anyway, until Google pulled the plug on one of its algorithms. But I always felt it was like we were all trying to game the system. Do you know what I mean? Like, Google says, if I write 15 keywords in this meta tag, then suddenly I’m relevant, right? And so we all went away and we’re all doing this like mad. But at the end of the day, what AI I think is potentially doing, it’s looking for, it seems to me like really, it’s trying to make things more genuine, right? And PR, as you say, is a great way of doing it.

Trust signals from different sources.

Trust signals, right. Stuff you can’t fake, right? You can’t fake if your brand’s been mentioned in the last 12 months, 82 times in the media, right?

You can’t fake that.

So it’s-

Absolutely. And you’ve seen, I mean, generative AI, or what they’re calling it, GAO, Generative Optimization, Engine Optimization, it’s taken over like SEO. I mean, think about it. What’s the first thing that you go to when you’re searching, or you are looking for some research? I know, I ChatGPT, I call her Veronica.

I had a client last week find me through chat.

Yeah. And she’s a great source for me, right? So knowing that folks are doing that, the folks that you’re targeting, that’s where that generative optimization really plays a part because gone are the days where people are just going straight to a Google search, right? And so again, it goes back to my initial point earlier, how all of these different functions have to operate together and not in silo. And we do that really great with one of our clients that’s in the deep tech space and that having that ability to be really closely with the SEO expert in understanding where links are coming from, where direct leads are coming from has been correlated to article that we may have placed. And so it’s really, again, it’s always key to make sure that all of those systems are talking to each other.

Can I ask something really silly? And I know we’ve got halfway through, but PR, does it stand for public relations?

That’s all it does. It does. You know what? Some folks think that it stands for press release. And I’m like, oh my God, PR, there’s so much more to PR than a press release.

Yeah.

So public relations then, I guess, you know, I guess historically, and maybe you can correct me here, I guess it started with, you know, having people within the organization who were focused on how do the public view us.

Yes.

And then now it’s obviously become, got all these strands that you mentioned at the start around like crisis management and so on. Is there an area of public relations that you specialize in, your company specializes in? Is it very general or is it very focused? Like what, give us a sense of…

Yeah. So yeah, BrandSavor, we really, I would say that we are very much sort of just industry agnostic, but we do service tech innovation and mission aligned companies. And so a lot of the work that we do with them, I mentioned earlier, I talked about sort of the difference between brand and PR and comms, but it really falls into that sort of offering of sort of thought leadership. So we’ve worked really well with a company and positioning their managing director for being on main stages across government, across tech and across innovation. And so thought leadership is one of our sort of specialties. We do really well. The brand messaging and strategy is something that we do really well, right? And so, we’ve worked with tons of startups who come to us and say, you know, we have this idea, but we don’t know really how to, how to articulate that. And that’s where sort of that brand messaging is really helpful because you can’t go out into the masses with a story if you don’t know what problem you’re solving and how to really articulate that to your audience. And so that brand messaging is super important as we think about how you want to show up in the world. So I would say that’s one of our specialties as well. And of course, content marketing, again, and think about sort of op-eds, bylines, those type of articles are still very much resonant across the industry and being able to get our clients placed in with those opportunities. So earned media also becomes within that realm as well. So we’re actually working with Nielsen on a pretty incredible report that they’re doing right now that they just launched and really articulating the importance of Black audiences in sort of the economy and consumption. And so being able to position that report out to media and really upleveling that storytelling is also one of our specialties too.

Wow, amazing. So quite a broad area. I’ve got a friend in PR, right? And I talked to her from Times Diamond. The sense I get is she’s very much landing articles within, at least here in the UK, within major newspaper and news outlets. Is that also part of it? So it’s creating the content and making sure it lands, gets out to the right journalists and press releases, I guess, might be part of that.

Absolutely. I mean, that’s the execution piece, but I will say, anytime that a potential client comes to us about, we just want to release this press release, it’s like, wait, wait, wait. You know, we’re big believers on, okay, what is the thinking behind this strategy? Like, you know, press releases, I feel like, gone are the days where you just sort of like, send it out and that’s it. There has to be intention behind it. What’s the story? What’s the strategy? Is there an opportunity for us to run an exclusive with a national outlet? These are all things that sort of you have to think about. That’s why the strategy piece is so important. So while the execution is great where you’re, you know, you’re going out pitching these story ideas, the strategy is the most important part to make sure that you’re approaching it the right way. And so it’s really about, I talked about that earned media piece. That’s really where sort of the placements and, you know, once sort of we have the angles outlined and we feel good about it, and it really makes sense, it’s going to resonate. Then that’s where sort of the earned media and placement piece comes. But I always say, you know, media has changed a lot, especially, you know, in this day and age. And it’s not even just about sort of the relationships you have, the content and those sort of things that your launches that you’re doing or in the press release, that’s what matters. What is the storytelling? How is it really going to resonate with your audience? Is it sort of data that’s really going to support, you know, the problem or the challenge that you’re seeing in your industry? And so, again, going back to sort of the narrative piece, right? Like brand strategy is great, but like, how are you telling that story? How is it going to resonate with folks? And that’s an important piece of PR, because reporters get inundated with pitches day in and day out. So you have to stand out and content is king in that, so.

So how do you make them stand out? Your messaging and story, but to make this a little bit tactile for someone that may want to get more exposure, for example, what would the process be to uncover that story, that messaging and make it from external or internal to external?

That’s a great question. And I’ll go back to the process that I talked about earlier, because we do, with the messaging workshop, we do a couple of different exercises. I’m giving all the sauce away, but store analysis is definitely important.

That’s why you’re here, come on.

We like sauce. We’re very saucy.

Give it all to the different sauce. That’s actually one of our taglines. Let’s get saucy. That is our tagline.

Sounds like Jacob’s tagline.

Store analysis, Jacob, is an important piece to that. Again, it’s not, you kind of flip it on its head, because traditionally, brands do SWOT analysis, and I feel like it’s a little contradictory to where you’re going. The SOAR analysis really helps to pull through, what you want to be known for as a brand. But also, too, you also have to think of just what’s happening in the world, trends. What are macro trends that are impacting us long-term five plus years? Then what are some micro trends that we’re seeing? Macro trend, obviously, AI. AI is the talk of the town. It’s impacting jobs, it’s impacting the way that we business, how we operate. So being able to understand, how do you fit in that AI conversation? What unique viewpoint do you have? Does your brand have as it relates to AI in this impact? That’s doing a little bit of reverse engineering, but it’s super helpful because we’re able to glean those insights and then come back with some meaningful storylines based on what we see that the media is talking about. And so media is covering trends. They’re constantly covering what’s happening in our world. And so you have to do a bit of sort of reverse engineering to then say, like, how do you feed into these trends? What’s some white space that we, you know, that, for example, with AI, everybody’s talking about, is there something contrarian that you can really add to the conversation? And so that’s sort of where you think about that messaging. That’s really where a lot of these different sort of exercises that we do come into play, because it just helps so much to really make sure that, one, we’re being strategic about, you know, how we are building that messaging for the brand story. And two, that you are showing up in a way that’s making you different, right? You don’t want to be kind of saying the same old thing. And it’s, you know, especially if you’re looking at competitors, like how can you really stand out and own that white space that maybe someone else isn’t owning?

I find it fascinating when you talk about what we’re talking about PR, but you’re actually going straight into the guts of an organization and talking about like positioning and what their difference. And my thought is that some of these big companies like you have experience at Amazon and Meta and stuff, they have some pretty strong brands already. So how do you handle that situation when they have, internally at least, have a strong brand? Like what’s your process then?

I mean, I think it’s really, what’s really important too, especially when there’s a strong brand ethos, I think it’s also about understanding why that ethos exists, right? And of course, behind the brand are the people, because at the end of the day, we’re all humans operating these big brands. And so I think, uncovering those layers, you kind of go back to sort of the thought leadership piece. These are sort of, companies are being led by people, and people have opinions and thoughts. And so that sense, we love to kind of take a real approach where we call story mining, right? Like really uncovering and understanding an executive, for example, did this really well, and had some really great success with the executive over at Meta, and they were just really amazing. But being able to have a series of like story mining sessions really helps to uncover sort of their care about, what they’re thinking, how they see sort of the vision in the next five years, and really being able to uncover that. Because I like to say with thought leadership, you have to have a unique perspective. You just can’t, you know, everyone has an opinion, but like, how is your opinion really standing out? And it’s changing culture, right? And so I think, you know, when you think about those bigger brands, like it’s really about going behind that ethos into the minds of the leaders, right? And really getting to know what makes them tick, what sort of their vision, because that really is a telltale in terms of really how to elevate and evolve that brand story.

All right. So story mining, you kept mention. I’d love to get the source on story mining. So the source, the source. He wants more sauce.

I told you, I told you the next source.

I mean, I think it depends on each leader. It’s really just a matter of interviewing, right? Like it’s a matter of getting to know that person, because at the end of the day in telling stories, like we’re all humans, right? We’ve done work with a lot of B2B brands, B2C. We always just like to say at the end of the day, it’s human to human. Like you’re having a conversation. And so at the very simplified level of story-minding, it’s really just about getting to know that person, right? And those questions can vary, right? Like just based, of course, a great PR professionals, comm professionals is going to go in and do their research and understand sort of their background. But I think being able to have sort of a unique perspective in coming in, prepared to understand the things that you want to get out of the conversation is super helpful. So it’s just in simplification. It’s just getting to know that person.

I have another question. So occasionally privileged enough to get asked by the press here in the UK to comment on the news story of the day or something. And I’m always absolutely terrified, right? Because I always ask and I always I never want to say, well, to be honest with you, right, I don’t know, you know, and no one else is going to know. But that executive, for example, is going to know what’s going on inside their business. Like I was asked to comment on Marks and Spencer back end of last year. And at the end of the day, it was like, well, I can assume, but I don’t know for sure, right? And yeah, it’s really tricky. Like, do you ever sort of coach or help leaders before they have to go into a scenario like that? One of my friends, he works for a lobby group that represents the pharmaceutical companies. Don’t ask me why, he’s like one of those guys. And he always said to me, Matt, I don’t know how you go on national radio and just go for it, because we have a week of meetings and comm strategists. And I was just like, I don’t do any of that. I just jump on and do the best I can.

That is so dangerous.

I know, right? I could probably do a little bit better with that. So I’m almost hoping for some free coaching here. Like, what are your thoughts? Like, say in an industry, you have been selected as a thought leader to comment. What sort of things should we be thinking about?

Yes. Well, you know, PR comes with the art of preparation, right? I mean, media training is definitely an offering. That’s important, especially when you’re thinking about being in front of media for, you know, specific interviews. But I think preparation is key. And we love to do media trainings. I think what’s incredibly important, when you say that, you know, there may be some topics that you may know, there’s a technique called bridging. So while you acknowledge it, you then bridge the conversation to go into a different direction based on what you want to talk about or what sort of your positioning is. So that, in that sense, Matt, that could be sort of a tactic that you would use. I love that. I always like to tell people, like, sound bites work, right? Like, your story should always have three things, a beginning, a middle, and an end. Keep it very short, keep it very succinct, and make sure that you are getting to your point and that there’s a call to action, that you want to influence folks to respond to the message that you’re trying to get across. And so that’s sort of simplifying it, but media training is so much, there’s so much more of a, it’s a psychological thing too, that we don’t realize. And a lot of the techniques that we talk about, even in our media training sessions, really lend to that. And so always having a beginning, a middle, an end, and keeping it super simple. You know, I’ve worked with founders who kind of veer off, or they go in different directions. And it’s like, okay. And it’s also because, you know, sometimes you might get nervous, you might just, you know, forget your lines. But again, if you always sort of center it around having that first, middle, and that call to action, and what you want folks, that sort of feeling or emotion that you want to evoke, I would say that’s the win when you’re thinking about how to prepare for media.

Love that. I’m definitely going to listen to this next time I’m asked. But yeah, no, and I’ll probably give you a call. But yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And that bridging kind of concept. Yeah, I have, I’ve spotted, you see it when politicians do it, don’t you? Let’s say now in the US, they just say whatever they want. But in the UK, the politicians, they never answer the flipping question. It drives me mad.

Oh yeah, they do that in the States too, Matt.

Run over.

I mean, but it is a very much widespread technique. Like any sort of true cons professional that specializes in media training knows that bridging technique is often very much, a lot of politicians use that technique in a way. Barack Obama was exceptional at it when he was in his presidency. But yeah, it is a thing.

If you’re serious about mastering branding and building a thriving creative business, the Brand Builders Alliance is for you. Inside, you’ll get live master classes, mentorship from our eight resident coaches, a stacked resource vault, and a global network of brand builders who actually get it. If you’re done winging it alone and are ready to scale with structure, support and serious momentum, head over to joinbba.com and get on the waitlist. That’s joinbba.com. So where do we go from here, Nikkia? What do our listeners need to know about PR?

Well, I think at the end of the day, you want to make sure that PR is not, and we’ve kind of talked about it early on, like a lot of brands kind of look at it in a short term sense, and PR is so much more than that. It’s a sort of strategic leverage long-term. Oftentimes, you see it across organizations where PR is more so reactive versus proactive, and so oftentimes are brought to the table when something happens, a crisis occurs, and I think at the end of the day, you know, if you want to be smart about your brand strategy, really think about those considerations up front, especially what PR can do for you in driving sort of that brand awareness, right? And so looking at those facets, making sure that PR teams talk to digital marketing, and they pay media, and even social, because all of it impacts the overall sort of brand vision and brand strategy in the story that you want to tell. And so I would definitely say, you know, PR is not just a short-term lever. You want to think about it as a true long-term business function. And I think, I don’t know if you guys have experienced Cannes, the Cannes Festival in France, but it’s been around for quite some time. I actually attended the last few years, and Cannes is a great place, a great place for creatives, for advertisers. I mean, it’s exceptional. I think one of the things that we saw, again, think going back to that white space that we didn’t see was how the PR and comms conversation shows up. And so we are actually creating programming specifically for communication leaders during Cannes this year and it’s called Signal. And so again, going back to sort of like that, PR can’t operate short-term. That’s really where we kind of want to bring to light the importance of having PR as that true business function that lives across your ecosystem and your organization. So, yeah.

So, if you’re going through the process, say, one of our listeners, this sounds like what we need. What would the process be of, how do you get started? Like, what would you look for in a good PR firm, for example?

Yeah, I mean, I think it really just, you know, it depends on also where you are in your sort of brand journey. So, when you think about sort of some different, I think, non-negotiables, right? Like, I think the biggest thing is understanding one, how much sort of knowledge do they have within that industry? Also, are they also sort of challenging the status quo in terms of what’s happening in your industry and the stories that are being told? I also think being able to have a PR partner that operates as an extension of your team is important because oftentimes, you know, you’re only thinking about the tactical pieces of it, but it’s so much more to where, you know, you are a sort of, again, an extension of that team and making sure that they can, you know, have conversations at the C-suite level, being able to be in sort of rooms with the sales teams or the other digital marketing teams and being able to ask the right questions, right? And so I think those are just a couple of different things that are important. I will say, too, when you’re having early conversations with PR firms and they show up, making sure that they really understand your business, they did the research, often times I’ve heard, which is interesting from prospects that, you know, research has been, hasn’t really been a thing just in conversation. I think it’s extremely important to know that you’re working with a partner that understands your business, has done the research, they’re asking the right questions and they’re really thinking about how they can serve as an extension of your team across those other functions.

Are there any other mistakes or traps that you see, like you mentioned, not aligning properly that we need to be aware of?

I mean, I think we kind of nailed it out, like the common myths like PR, you know, being sort of a one-stop shop short term, press release being the one-all be-all, like that is a thing of the past. And I think the biggest thing is like making sure that your PR doesn’t operate in silo. That’s the biggest, I think, takeaway. That is important to understand how you can really extend the life of your brand strategy, making sure that PR doesn’t operate in silo.

What do you think the future of PR is? We’ve touched on AI and all of this stuff. Do you see it changing or morphing much in relation to your work and the way that people interact with media?

Oh yeah, I mean, I already mentioned that earlier media has changed drastically just in the way that it’s, you have the rise of independent journalism, you have reporters that are doing much more to monetize their information and insights. And so you have things like Substack that has really taken shape a lot. So you’ll start to see a lot more of that. I mean, of course, AI has already impacted our industry and I think as a whole just in media. So we should be prepared to see more of that and embracing it, right? Oftentimes it’s surprising to me that folks are still somewhat very cautious and afraid of utilizing AI. But I always, especially within my team, you have to embrace it. You have to be able to understand that, you have to make it work for you, not against you. So I think obviously as we push forward, I think AI will have a big influence on PR, it already has. Really being able to take that and really figure out ways to make it really elevate the storytelling aspect more, especially for like PR firms. And I think too, AI will help for KPIs and measurement to come much more clearly, especially in PR. Again, I mentioned earlier the reason why, you know, PR is often the first thing to go when you think about budget cuts is because they can’t map it to true ROI. And so I think in the future, I would imagine that AI is really going to help really upend that and really make PR more sticky. We talked about sort of generative optimization and AI optimization and what that looks like. And I really feel like we’re just kind of scratching the surface of what that will look like in the PR industry.

How do you know you’re ready for PR?

As a brand?

As a brand or organization?

I mean, I think it really boils down to really understanding your identity as a brand, right? And then also too, I think it’s a matter of understanding that message that is going to resonate. What challenge are you solving? And then making sure that that works in your favor in terms of being able to tell a true story. Again, with media changing, you can’t just have PR just to think that you’re going to get a great headline and think that’s the end all be all. Or you may have brands that think that they can start PR and then end up in a national media outlet. It doesn’t work like that. PR is an earned process. And so I think when you’re clear about your brand DNA, what you stand for, who you’re touching in that storytelling aspect, and what sort of that outcome and where you want to be, I think that’s when you know you’re ready for PR.

I think that’s a perfect way to wrap this up, Nikkia. So thank you for sharing your wisdom and your experience with us and our listeners. Before we wrap up, could you share where people can connect with you, maybe where they can learn some more?

Yes. So I am, our website is BrandSavor Media Marketing. It’s brandsavor.co, not com, co, and we’re also on LinkedIn at BrandSavor Media Marketing, and that’s where you can find us, of course. If you’re interested in learning more about our services, you can send us a quick note there via the website.

Thank you so much.

What about you personally, Nikkia, if anyone’s got any questions or anything, like is there any way you want to direct them?

Yeah, I mean, they can certainly take my email too. I’m open to that. My email is nikkia at brandsaver.co.

Right. You’ll get millions of questions now.

I’m ready for it. I’m bracing myself.

Right. That’s a challenge to all you listeners out there, right? You drop Nikkia a line with your question and we’ll see how many we can get. But make sure they’re smart questions and make sure they’re useful. So we’d appreciate that. Listen, thank you so much for coming on the show. Listeners out there, thank you for tuning in. Hope you found this as interesting as Jacob and I did. Keep brand building. Thank you so much everybody. It’s been a pleasure.

Thanks everyone.